Curse

credit · Jan 21, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

[frenzy]

that is all.

faraaz · Jan 21, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

[Auspicious Incantation]
[Concussion Shot]
[Restore Condition]
[Savage Shot]
[Waste Not Want Not]
[Tease]

Puebert · Jan 21, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I don't understand how I'm a troll. I'm just trying to see what some people say is balanced and what some say is imbalanced.

I gave reasons why I thought GE was balanced, and people are providing examples of why other skills are.

I was honestly curious, because I kinda thought DShot was overpowered.

makosi · Jan 21, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

[Distracting Shot] is not balanced.

Some balanced skills, imo, are:

[Insidious Parasite] [Empathy] [Faintheartedness] [dwayna's kiss] [troll unguent] [cry of frustration] [purge signet] [twisting fangs] [spirit rift] [cruel spear] [disrupting throw] [sun and moon slash] [reversal of fortune] [infuse health] to name a few.

They have clear purposes and fulfil their roles in a satisfactory way without being too conditional, too flimsy or too strong. Then again skill balancing is more complex than individual skills.

Winterclaw · Jan 22, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I'd also say a skill is balanced when it takes as much skill to use it as it takes to counter it.

I think that is part of it.

I see being balanced as a set of conditions that need to be met:
1. Is it useful enough, alone or with another skill, to warrant being placed on your bar?
2. Is it not so useful that you absolutely have to bring it on your bar?
3. It is counterable?
4. Can you counter it with one skill? In other words, it doesn't require multiple skills or classes to counter it at once... the other team doesn't have to build around stopping one skill.

I think those are some of the conditions, but there are probably more if I think about it.

FengShuiDove · Jan 22, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

[reversal of fortune]

Agree. This was the first skill I thought of when I saw the thread. Has a potent use, but not all-powerful or overpowered. A skill deserving of 5e, 1/4s, 2r.

Also, I tend to think a lot of the popular melee attacks are balanced fairly well, given that they have to be powerful enough to be used in spite of anti-melee Blind, blocking, etc.

[Eviscerate] and [Devastating Hammer] are good only when timed well and used well, [Twisting Fangs] is pretty strong at the end of a Sin chain, but to get there you have to go through a full chain or you waste it (i.e. Palm Strike --> Twisting Fangs is a waste of the skill). [Wounding Strike] however, is a bit unbalanced in my opinion. If the conditions were switched so that Bleeding was covered instead of Deep Wound so single condition removal skills like Dismiss could clean DW, it'd be balanced better.

In general, your easy to use, easy to counter skills, your strong but highly conditional skills, and your weaker, less counter-able or more spammable skills.

Bug John · Jan 22, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I'd also say a skill is balanced when it takes as much skill to use it as it takes to counter it.

I'd rather say that for a build, not a skill, but I totally agree on the idea

I think you have to consider the skill in its build to see if it's balanced or not, some skills can be broken when used with some primary attributes or some other skills

[distracting shot] not balanced ? it's a very good, well balanced skill, that requires skill to use

wtfisgoingon · Jan 22, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

It does not take skill to use dshot or bullstrike, predicting when someone will move does not equal skills.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing.

GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do.

byteme! · Jan 22, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

It does not take skill to use dshot or bullstrike, predicting when someone will move does not equal skills.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing.

GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do.

I agree for the most part. DShot a key skill or "predicting" when to Bullstrike someone does not take skill. You do however need quick reflexes. To know when and what skill to DShot doesn't require skill. You just need the experience. For example, anyone who's played a considerable amount of time can identify the sounds and animations of Prot Spirit. Doesn't take skill. You just have to experience it first. Does experience = skill? F__K no! That's the same as saying all GWAMM's are the best players in the game. Not so much ya?

Fay Vert · Jan 22, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Interesting that a few have said [distracting shot] is not balanced but fail to say why.

moriz · Jan 22, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

It does not take skill to use dshot or bullstrike, predicting when someone will move does not equal skills.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing.

GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do.

"knowing how to play hockey is not a skill, because all it require is great physical aptitude, hand-eye coordination, quick reflexes, and the ability to skate."

"being able to perform brain surgery does not require skill, it requires going through 12 years of post secondary education, good hand-eye coordination, not being not squeamish around blood"

"knowing how to play chess is not a skill, because all it require is the ability to think well ahead of the current situation and how to corner your opponents"

see, if i define everything to be "not require skill", everything will NOT require skill! GENIUS!

Dmitri3 · Jan 22, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I think it's funny that people don't realize that everyone got their own definition of balance, skill and whatever.

Balance is the same way as Good or Bad. Your view changes depending in which position you are, even if you don't want it to happen. This is why wars happen and why people remain dumb.

Winterclaw · Jan 22, 2009, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I think moriz has a better understanding of what player skill is than whatshisname does.

Actually knowing what skills to interrupt and being able to correctly predict when they are going to be used does take a bit of skill.

Take WoH. It has a 3/4s cast time. So that means a mesmer should be able to power block it fairly easily but considering Dshot takes 1/2 a second to use you have to have a lot more sense of what's going on so you can correctly predict that the monk is going to use WoH so you can interrupt it.

byteme! · Jan 22, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think moriz has a better understanding of what player skill is than whatshisname does.

Actually knowing what skills to interrupt and being able to correctly predict when they are going to be used does take a bit of skill.

Take WoH. It has a 3/4s cast time. So that means a mesmer should be able to power block it fairly easily but considering Dshot takes 1/2 a second to use you have to have a lot more sense of what's going on so you can correctly predict that the monk is going to use WoH so you can interrupt it.

I agree that knowing how to control the tempo of a battle, knowing how your teammates/opponents are going to act and react does in fact take skill.

dartz180 · Jan 22, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

[Charm Animal]

Most balanced skill in the game.

FoxBat · Jan 22, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

There's no bow ranger bar ever that would not run [Distracting Shot]. It's the first ranger skill wildcarded in every sealed deck. It's not "balanced" in the sense that it is 100% better than all competing options in every situation.

As a whole, rangers are outperforming mesmers at disruption and completely dominating split play, but you can't pin all the blame on any one skill there.

Shadowspawn X · Jan 22, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

This skill [concussion shot] is balanced. High energy cost and high results if you are good enough to land it. If you are bad you are penalized heavily with the energy loss.

phan · Jan 22, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Define balanced for me pls :')

Age · Jan 22, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

"knowing how to play hockey is not a skill, because all it require is great physical aptitude, hand-eye coordination, quick reflexes, and the ability to skate."

Playing hockey does require some amount of skill like goal tending and knowing when to shoot the puck.Wayne Gretsky did not get where he is with out skill

The same can be said for anybody out there whether it be skilled tradesman or professional.

moriz · Jan 23, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

i made that post to illustrate the flawed logic of the poster i was quoting. you are supposed to take those statements as tongue-in-cheek statements, and not to be taken literally.